Thinking about breeding Oscars and need some help!

[shevel]

Hey Everyone!!

Im thinking about breeding oscars. I am thinking about getting a 55g or maybe if i have the room and $ i will try to get a 75g. Also, i think im going to buy 4 little oscars (1.5in-2in) from different lfs and raise them together. I hope then to sex them and remove 2 of them and try to breed them. I want to raise the fry and sell them. Ive bred gouramis before so i want to try to breed oscars as well...

Is there any other cichlid that is easier to breed?
Would it be better to get oscars that are 6in instead of small ones like i plan on?
Is there a better way to obtain oscars than have 4 juvis grow up and have a mating pair from them? Is that how to do it?
How to sex oscars?
How long does it take them to mature?
Are the fry easy to raise?
How often do oscars mate?

Ive had one oscars in the past so i know the mess these guys make and ready to take care of them. Ive been doing freshwater tanks for 3 years now and for the past year also have set up a nano reef. I am new to breeding oscars or any cichlid so if you could help me out i would really appreciate it!!

and just in case i am succesful with breeding and have an outlet for the fry, what is the most profitable cichlid to breed but also not difficult??

Thanks for reading and sory for all the questions

[Fuzzy]

HI and welcome to the forum.

Sexing Oscars, the only sure way is to vent them.

Your right in getting four, or even six, wait for a pair to happen, then remove the rest.

Fish parents are like any parents, some are good, some are not. It's not uncommon for the parents to eat the first or even second batch of fry. Oscars are no diffrent, but if you do get fry, you can remove them, from the main tank, and raise them in a grow out tank.

Oscars mature within a year, in general.

They will breed, two to three times a year, on average.

Oscars need a flat rock, or spot to lay their eggs. I have found, they seem to need to make this, and not have it supplied. So give them a flat rock, shale works well in the tank, and they should figure it out.

As for the profitability of breeding Oscars, I guess that depends on the area you live, and how expensive it is for the local fish stores to source the fish. I suspect that the best fry prices would go to fish which are hard to breed, and Oscars, while not being overly easy to breed, are also not overly hard to breed.

Hope this helps give you some answers.

[shevel]

Fuzzy, thanks so much for the info. I now have a better understanding of Oscars, even thought there is so much more to learn!! I think i will go with getting 6 at first, that way the probability for getting a mating pair is much greater. Ive heard about 'venting' but have no clue what it is? Also, what do you guys think about the tank size? Can i get away with a 55 or would it be much better to get the 75? I think i am going to leave the first two batches of fry in the tank. And if that doesnt work, as in they being eaten, i will get them out next time. What is the best way to remove the fry?

Thanks to all who contribute to this thread!!

oh yeah, what other cichlids are fun to raise? i have no experience or knowledge with any other types, just oscars.

thanks again!

-Shevel

[Fuzzy]

Ok the tank size issue. There are many who will say "two Oscars in a 55 gallon tank???  , now way
you need a minimum of 75.......OR BIGGER!!!"  If you were new to the hobby I would recommend you get a 75, however
you CAN have two Oscars, in a 55, and keep them healthy. It just means a lot more work, carefull feeding, and more water changes.  If you keep the fry in the main tank, remember to put something over your filter intake tubes, so the fry don't get sucked up into the filter box's. As for removing the fry, there are many methods, one fairly easy one is to use a syphon hose, and suck em up. This transfer them, and the water to the grow out tube in one easy step. Others have made fine mess nets out of pantyhose, etc. I am also sure there's a "special" product in the local LFS to buy, as well.

Personally I think chiclids hold a special place in the freshwater fish. As for other fun species, well if your looking for colour, go African. New World chiclids just don't seem as colourfull. Mind you, there are some nice looking ones as well.

[amy5335]

I would put 1 O in a minimum of 90 gallons. They have like millions of babies, and I just don't think they'd be comfortable in a 55-75 gallon. I have a 55 gallon, and imagining one of my 12 inch babies in there, just seems cruel.

[Fuzzy]

The old tank size debate. Well Amy I would always say for Oscars get the biggest tank you can.
However, lets turn the clock back 40 years. Back to the time with steel frame tanks. Then, a large tank  would be in the range of 30 gallons, and people kept Oscars in them. Adult size, of course the fish would not be able to swim or turn around with ease, however it could be kept, healthy and disease free. For a long time in fish keeping, before the advent of good silicon, this was the norm in fishkeeping.
In todays world, its relatively easy to acquire a good size tank, that would have the old hobbis ts drooling over, back in the day.
Back to the tank size, gallon size is important, however, its the footprint of the tank, that is the major thing to look for. For Oscars, a tank that has a 14" or bigger bottom plate is a better choice than one that only has a 12" in bottom. This is irrelevant of tank wall hight. There are some tanks, that are 75's, and the only difference between it and a 55, is the hight of the tank walls. This type of tank, is really no better for the Oscar, then a 55. Its just gives the owner, a bit more time between water changes. The same situation, applies to a 75 gallon tank, and a 90 gallon tank.
We all want to give our fish the best home possible. It can be done in a 55, of the right size. If the owner, takes good care of the tank, feeding and water quality, the fish will be healthy. It may not be as nice for the fish, as maybe a larger tank. Yet its not cruel, being borne in a wild river, struggling to survive, dodging bigger predatory fish, pollution, floods, and being left high out of the water, to slowly die in a shrinking pond. Fishermans nets, or baited lines, the list goes on. That is what they would go through in nature, is that cruel? As you mentioned, when Oscars breed, they lay a lot of eggs, what I posted before is the reason why. In the wild maybe only two or three of those fry would live.
Two Oscars in 55, I don't think its cruel.

[shevel]

Thanks for the replies Amy and Fuzzy! I thought a 55g tank would be a little on the smaller side for Oscars but maybe it could be possible to keep them in a tank of that size. Well, I talked to my LFS today about cost of the tanks and I am gonna go with a 75g tank. Complete with gravel, class top, lights, heater and a CA1000 (? i think thats the one ?) canister filter. But first I need to find a spot for it and get the $300 to get all my equipment. I have room in my shed in the backyard (it was built almost like a house so dont freak out because I said "shed" its all insulated and has carpet, we use it to put our storage boxs and some other stuff) its very cool inside during our summer and during the winter its not so cold. I wanted to know if you guys think this is a good place or it? I of course will have a heater in my tank to keep it at 78*F. I will build a stand for it once I get the tank. Im in no hurry to get this set up but when I do finally get the chance to, I will definetly upload some pics for you guys.


Thanks again for your feedback, I was at a few other forums and everyone seemed to ignore all my Q's, but you guys are great! thanks so much!

[stilllearnin]

I'll agree with both sides 

[quote]Can i get away with a 55 or would it be much better to get the 75?[/quote] for another oponion I'll add Yes and Yes

I have kept plenty of oscars in 55's and they did fine.
[b]but[/b] to do it right you pretty much need daily maintaince , where in a 75 you can get away with weekly.


but if your looking [u]to breed[/u] - bigger is not necessarily better.



[quote]Is there any other cichlid that is easier to breed?[/quote]
convicts are the easiest new world cichlids if your looking for an easy start at figureing out breeding.

[stilllearnin]

[quote]Ive heard about 'venting' but have no clue what it is?[/quote]
compairing the sex organ openings.


Basicly when you hold oscars (most fish) upside down (or look at adults from underneath) ........

a male will have  two holes similar sized something like oo
a female will have a larger hole (for her ovipositer/egg tube) like o0

or if they're close (or mid) spawning you can just look for the eggtube

like this female of mine had hers down to lay
(it's the tube infront of the anal fin)
[img]http://www.cjexotics.com/images/aolayingeggs.jpg[/img]

[shevel]

thank you Stilllearnin for the info.. like i said before i am gonna go with the 75g tank. i will do some more reasearch on those convict cichlids and see if id like to try and breed those instead.

ive bred Blue Gouramis before and they built the bubble nest and laid the eggs, they hatched and i had Lots of little tiny fry swimming around. but a week after they hatched, everyday i would see less and less of the fry until eventually they were all gone.. i had fed them a liquid food and started to feed a powder type food. what kind of food would i have to feed the oscar fry in order for them to live? i dont want them to start dissapearing like the gouramis.. how big are the oscar fry and how long does it usually take oscars to reach a size of 1in?

thanks again for all the replies!

[stilllearnin]

Oscar wigglers are 1/16th" - 1/8"or so , it depends on the size of the eggs really, oscar eggs will just look to suddenly have tails then eyes.

Be ready for more fry then Blue Gouramis have.

Here's a full size batch of eggs (the other was mid-laying)
[img]http://cjexotics.com/images/albeggs2.jpg[/img]


Once they become free swimming fry they'll be 1/4" pretty fast.

Growth to an inch varies alot , dependant on food (type and quality) , temperature , water quality , if they're raised by the parents , if they raised alone , etc...


The stuff I like best for feeding baby oscars (most of my cichlid fry) is cyclopeeze 
The freeze dryed is ok, personally I liked the frozen better though.
The stuff runs about $50 shipped to your door for around 2 pounds of it.
Sounds expensive but in the end it's a lot cheaper ,less time consuming,less hastle and gives better results then trying to hatch brine shrimp.
I get mine [url=http://www.jehmco.com/html/cyclop-eeze.html]here[/url]

I "think" they may have 4 ounce packages for less,not sure though I usually grab a few bricks at a time.



otherwise - baby brine shrimp work
              - crumble flake foods work too
  but both tend to foul a tank faster and take more maintaince then cyclo-eeze.



[quote]i will do some more reasearch on those convict cichlids and see if id like to try and breed those instead.[/quote]

Short quick run down on them.
They will breed in a mud puddle . 
They're reccomended often because they're smaller , spawn younger , spawn faster and are cheaper (purchase and care) then Oscars.
They're also easy to visually sex , since (99% of the time) females have  orange sides , males don't.

[shevel]

Stilllearnin.. thats a beautiful Oscar you got and thats a LOT of eggs!!!

I know with oscars it is impossible to keep live plants, but what about the convicts??? do they act like oscars and rip things out and place them where they like??? Ive thought alot about either going with oscars or convicts... I want to try and breed the convicts first then if im sucessful i will go ahead and take on the oscar! Im guessing a 55g tank would be plenty for the convicts? how about like a 40g long?

Thanks again guys for the info!!

[amy5335]

I wouldn't breed convicts. They are like guppies, just put a male and female together...and you have babies. Convicts are hardy, and don't die easily either. So as many eggs that are laid...thats probably about the number of baby convicts you'll have. Plus, convicts are everywhere. A lot of people have them, and once you have them they are hard to sell. Most people know how many babies they produce, and not many people want them. On the classifieds sites around where I am (Ont, Canada), there are people selling convicts for $1 each, and still nobody wants them!


I have at least 200 convicts (they all started out from 2!!), and I can't get rid of them.

It's kind of the same with O's too though. They are very easily found, and not expensive. You'll probably get rid of the O's faster than convicts though.

[stilllearnin]

Thanks I had that oscar (and many others) for a long time before I decided to get out of oscars for a while. A ton of anything burns you out after a while though.
[img]http://cjexotics.com/images/oscarsspawn320.jpg[/img]
(yes both pairs spawned at the same time - often  and along with more)

Most newworld cichlids will dig and rearrange stuff. Convicts are limited by their size though compared to oscars.
a 40 long will work fine for convicts [size=100](or any other member of the Cryptoheros family)[/size]

If moneys a thought.

Here's a thought.....

Convicts - are cheaper to start with.
Convicts - go to stores at an 1" for around 25 cents (average)

Oscars - sell in large groups around an 1" for around 35-45 cents (average to a wholesale buyer). And cost more to spawn.

Remember with fish that spawn  with hundreds + fry , your basically competeing with florida and asian farms. I know a few people will swear thats not true because you'll save shops shipping - not really. 1 box of airline shipped fish is $45-$65 no matter how many are in it. 2 boxes can stay at the same freight cost or maybe just up the price $5. And dealers who deliver fish locally cut discounts for volume.(all reasons some stores won't buy from breeders)

It is true you might not have an easy time getting rid of entire spawns of either.

Convicts no matter what are easier to get the hang of breeding with,which is why everyone has them cheap.

In all honesty - if your looking for something thats easy to sell fry of, thats usually something hard to spawn.


or play it safe , get some of the less common convicts like the Rio Mongas or the Lutino Honduran redpoints. Both of those still retail for around $7ea and have been selling to dealers and stores for $2.50ea in groups.
[size=100](they will drop fairly fast though since they spawn so easily)[/size]


Rio Mongas look similar and act just like "normal" convicts although they seem to stay slightly smaller.
One of my female rio monga "convicts" (I have a waiting list for fry already)
[img]http://cjexotics.com/pictures/riomo.JPG[/img]

Most other Cryptoheros spawn easily as well (and are kept easy and just like convicts) and they come in a wide variety,maybe one of those would interest you even?

Here's what I mean by variety
my Cryptoheros nanoluteus
[img]http://cjexotics.com/pictures/nanos.JPG[/img]

my Cryptoheros cutteri
[img]http://cjexotics.com/pictures/cutterpairdec05.JPG[/img]


You can find alot more on google as well , just didn't want to post someone else's pictures.

In the end breed something you like. Wether it's hard or easy ,cheap or expensive.Interest keeps things going alot more then a profit ever can.

Good Luck,whatever you decide to try ,have fun , ask questions and more then likely someone can help with just about any fish.

[shevel]

wow thats a beautiful Rio Monga! Stilllearnin, you are right about the convicts being whole lot cheaper. they sell for about $1.50 at my LFS... ive had one oscar before and he was more than just a fish and thats why i wanted to start breeding oscars. the only thing thats stopping me from buy the 75g tank is room. theres no other place i can set up a tank in my house. we are planning on taking out some cabinets and stuff from our garage, hopefully sometime soon, and when we do i want to reserve a spot for my tank. if i can do that, then i am definetly going with oscars. even if they dont breed, its ok, they are the best fish to keep as "pets" i believe. thanks again everyone for the advice and feedback. now i cant wait until i get a spot for my tank! this will be a fun journey and i cant wait to start. when i do i will post pics for you guys and take you along with every step.

-shevel