Problems at a fish store!!!!!

[Barb Okla]

I bought two fish from ******.  One was titled to be a red devil and the other a convict.  I am now saddened to find out that they are both parrots    However, (for those of you in Albany, NY, PAY ATTENTION!!)  there is a place called Davey Jones' Locker where I went yesterday and found the most brilliant red colored parrot and I just had to have him.  I told the owner about my problem with my "convict".  When I got her, she was gray and black striped... now he is a whitish-pink color.  He informed me that places like ****** get there fish from carriers who dye them and sell them as something else.  I was so upset!!  He believes that the dye did something to her which is why she can't get her natural color back.  I was also told at ****** that the reason my fish was turning this color was because she needed a mate and tried to persuade me to buy a male parrot.  I was then informed at Davey Jones' Locker that ALL of the parrots are females    Getting in to the fish world, I didn't know much about cichlids, but I have been learning more and more with every fish I attain.  The first fish I got (the "red devil") has an orange head and the rest of her is more like a pale yellow.  It bothers me to know that people would harm these poor fish just to sell them for money.  I am officially boycotting ****** and I highly suggest the rest of you do as well.

[Barb Okla]

I do not advise the bashing of fish stores EVEN when the customer has been given a bad/wrong fish.. I did take off the name as it can cause US problems.. I know U dont' want that.. 

The ppl at THIS fish store are young  kids and  mostly do not know their fish. I have seen parrots with convicts and Midas/Red Devils all kept together. So if U dont know which is which and the sales person gets U the wrong one, then the FISH store is not liable. U need to take the fish BACK to the fish store and get the ones U want..

AS for the OTHER fish store, UNLESS she went personaly and VENTED these cichlids, then they do NOT KNOW the sex of them.. Venting is the only true way to tell the sex of these cichlids. These are not sexable at fish store sizes and THE retailer does not do so either as far as I know.. U can call the first store and speak with the manager and ASK if they are all females or not. I am sure she wil tell U she does not know..  I could be wrong here.. I do know that ppl say their parrots are spawning and doing fine in different locations in the USA.. So they must  sell SOME males too.  Although these are Hybrids and are surposed to be sterile, seems nature always finds a way.. 

Your Rd is fine.. IF that is what U have..  That is a normal color change for a RD. not all are bright red.. this does not mean it is another species.. A picture of them would help to confirm this.. A parrot has a pinced mouth, so if this one isn't, then it is a RD.. they have long snouts like..  Parrots do not change colors llike this. they are a nice bright orange IF THEY are NOT dyed. That is the pinks, yellows  and green ones U see.. they will change colors later on as the dye wares off.. 

Your convict WILL not change colors.. That is just not going to happen. the pink cons do not have the black stripes. They are born as either striped cons or Pink/white as they develope into adult.. 

As U now have a hybrid parrot, U need to compair it to the one U say is changing colors, the RD IF that is what it is..

[stephilee]

I was told that all parrots are females period.  That they are a hybrid mix between gold severums and red devils.  But then again...    I've been trying to take some pictures but they're hiding; we lost power last night so I think the water was a little to chilly for their liking.  I'll try again in a little while.  So do you think there are such things as male parrots?  Or is it just that the female parrots are are being bred by a red devil or a severum?

[Barb Okla]

They told U wrong..  how could two different species just have females?? can' t be done..
I have seen pics of parrots with fry.. So YES their are males out their.. At the size they are at the fish stores, U can not sex them without a magnifying glass and U have to know what to look for.. fish stores just SELL they dont' care if male or females. This is just some of the stories that go around and ppl should find out before voicing THEIR opinions.. Get some pics when U can.. I understand about losing power. not fun.. they can tolerate to 65F (18c) and do fine but any lower and that wil shock them pretty bad..

Do make sure that U have a check valve on your air tubing  mid way to almost to the theTop of the tank, so the water wil not sypher back out through the air line.. KEEPING the Air pump on TOP of the tank helps prevent this with power is out.. OR just remove the airstone/other..

[stilllearnin]

[quote="stephilee "]
I was told that all parrots are females period. [/quote]
As Barb says not true in their early days there seemed to be a high rate of infetile males combined with higher percentages of females , which led to this info being passed around.

[quote="stephilee "]
  That they are a hybrid mix between gold severums and red devils.  [/quote]
That is true , until you find a few stubborn hobbyist that swear it's not.

If you follow the trail of truth it'll also shed some light on the first part.

What I mean there is ,in the beging most if not all parrots in the U.S.  were bred by one main source ,Santos (to the best of my knowledge) who is in Florida and in an area with a lot of lime in the water table and ponds.
Certain PH  effects the sexing of fry, if they're ph was in a range to produce mostly females, guess what goes out to all the stores and dealers? Yep mostly females.
Males may have had a high sterilty rate in the begining from the same thing
since nature was trying to tell them to be female or it may have had something to do with them being a first generation hybrid , noone seems to have a 100% definate anwser either way.
Now parrots unfortunately (sorry not a hybrid fan myself) are bred in more places by more people  so they're in different conditions and they're usually no longer first generation crosses so more breedable males do pop up.

Back to the beginning 
Know where most (I'd guess 99%) parrots come from in stores in the U.S. now?
Florida
Any guess what sex that makes most of them? and keeps the false info going.

Honestly  a couple years ago I'd of told you most parrots were sterile but when people play frankenstein things don't work out exactly like they think I guess.
Live and learn


[quote]When I got her, she was gray and black striped... now he is a whitish-pink color.  He informed me that places like ****** get there fish from carriers who dye them and sell them as something else.  [/quote]
On a store correction - nobody dyes fish to make them striped
and you may have gotten a pink convict that was both young and stressed when you bought it. Convicts naturally come in different colors.

Here's an example of some convicts I worked with for a while.
[img]http://www.cjexotics.com/images/whitecons.jpg[/img]
No dye no junk no hormones


[quote]Your Rd is fine.. IF that is what U have..  That is a normal color change for a RD. [b]not all are bright red[/b].. this does not mean it is another species[/quote]
Again I'll agree with Barb 
to help show what shes saying

Some of my "red devils"
an extreme example and one of two known for certain in the U.S. at this time
but this is a barred red devil
[img]http://www.cjexotics.com/pictures/barredlab.JPG[/img]


This is the sister of the barred above  (call here whatever you'd like)
(might not show my sites in mid transfer)
[img]http://www.cjexotics.com/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3071.0;attach=4117;image[/img]
just to make it interesting  - the above two where spawned one time and threw white  and or mostly white fry  both are guaranteed red devils as they came from a pair of wild caught red devils  asfter seeing them here's one of their babies grown up a bit

[img]http://74.54.17.82/~cjexscom/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3438.0;attach=4949;image[/img]

an orange female
[img]http://www.cjexotics.com/pictures/Amphilophus_labiatus.JPG[/img]

babies from orange parents , at color change
[img]http://www.cjexotics.com/images/babyreddevils423.jpg[/img]

same babies a while later
[img]http://cjexotics.com/images/red-devils.jpg[/img]

[quote]I didn't know much about cichlids, [b]but I have been learning more and more with every fish I attain[/b].[/quote]
Thats what matters most 

While we're on the subject of stores and what they sell, I'll take this time to mention that the large majority of red devils sold in stores in this country are also hybrids. Hybrids between Midas and real red devils.

[stephilee]

Thanks for all the information.  Here are some pictures.  Maybe one of you can figure out this whole mess...


This is the convict that was once black and gray striped.  Her name is Donkey Kong (we didn't know she was a girl and my little brother named her...)
[img]http://[IMG]http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff276/StephiLee369/P1220479.jpg[/img][/img]

An upclose of DK again
[img]http://[IMG]http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff276/StephiLee369/P1220482.jpg[/img][/img]

The red one is the Parrot I got from the new pet store (named Paula) and the orange one was once the almost black one aka Red Devil (Monster)
[img]http://[IMG]http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff276/StephiLee369/P1220480.jpg[/img][/img]

Paula and Monster again
[img]http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff276/StephiLee369/P1220478.jpg[/img]





Hopefully this helps.  Thanks again.

[stephilee]

ok lets try that again...

the "convict"
[img]http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff276/StephiLee369/P1220479.jpg[/img]

and again
[img]http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff276/StephiLee369/P1220482.jpg[/img]

parrot and "red devil"
[img]http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff276/StephiLee369/P1220480.jpg[/img]

[craig_uk]

3 parrots - All look as though their un-dyed though. Thank heavens for small mercy's eh?

Tank looks far too small for their eventual size though!

Also (...my other love shows its head here) your clown loach. They should always ALWAYS be kept in groups of 6 or more.

Helps to stop aggression (diffuses it amongst themselves) a singular specimen will "bully" other fish. The first you'll know of this in your tank is a dead clown loach for no reason.

They also grow to about 12" so need a HUGE tank for the shoal.

Their also a "scaleless" fish and are prone to skin infections. any peck from one of your fish and hell catch something, again, even with perfect water params.

in summery - Clown Loach and larger cichlids - Bad combination.

There are other loaches available, which are a bit smaller and alot hardier, (Pakistani, dojo etc) give them a look, they'll fill the role in your tank much better then the clown.

Craig

[stilllearnin]

[quote]3 parrots [/quote]
Agreed

From the pictures
I'd [u]make a guess [/u] at the picture labeled
Paula and Monster again, as being a male and female.

[stephilee]

Thanks for all the advice... I know monster is a female because she's laid eggs before but I'm not sure about Paula.  As for the clown loach, it was a fish my little brother picked out and the guy at the store said he'd be fine, but now that you say that; maybe a few more and a bigger tank wouldn't be too bad.  We're in the process of finding a bigger one but not too much luck so far.  It's nice to know they aren't dyed... I literally broke out into tears when I was told.  They're my babies!!!  But thanks again for everything!!